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Comments on: In Kernel or Not In Kernel – This Is The Hyperconverged Question http://longwhiteclouds.com/2015/02/27/in-kernel-or-not-in-kernel-this-is-the-hyperconverged-question/ all things Nutanix, VMware, cloud and virtualizing business critical applications Sat, 09 May 2015 04:12:49 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.7.7 By: vcdxnz001 http://longwhiteclouds.com/2015/02/27/in-kernel-or-not-in-kernel-this-is-the-hyperconverged-question/comment-page-1/#comment-191729 Sat, 09 May 2015 04:12:49 +0000 http://longwhiteclouds.com/?p=10647#comment-191729 In reply to Daniel.

Hi Daniel, I agree, at the end of the day it's all just about the apps. Also performance is much less of a factor for the two different methods than security, mobility, testability, reliability and other factors.

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By: Daniel http://longwhiteclouds.com/2015/02/27/in-kernel-or-not-in-kernel-this-is-the-hyperconverged-question/comment-page-1/#comment-191637 Fri, 08 May 2015 08:10:37 +0000 http://longwhiteclouds.com/?p=10647#comment-191637 We all know that storage performance is “how do I bring the I/O to disk”. The real performance is impacted how writes are committed in cache, which block size is used by the solution, in the background and which block size does my application produce. Are there mechanisms to reduce backend I/Os and how effective does the tiering algorithm of the solution work. The discussion if it runs in or out of the kernel is so high level, that there is no real world advantage of it. All the other things do have much more impact on performance, from my point of view the “in or outside the kernel performance discussion” is the needle in the haystack.

Would be interesting to get insights about differences of the solutions that compared on other level than just “kernel”.

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By: Newsletter: March 8, 2015 | Notes from MWhite http://longwhiteclouds.com/2015/02/27/in-kernel-or-not-in-kernel-this-is-the-hyperconverged-question/comment-page-1/#comment-180161 Sun, 08 Mar 2015 22:40:23 +0000 http://longwhiteclouds.com/?p=10647#comment-180161 […] or Not In Kernel – This is the Hyperconverged Question Michael has a very thoughtful article here on the idea of storage (or other things actually too) in the Kernel or not.  Even though I am a […]

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By: vcdxnz001 http://longwhiteclouds.com/2015/02/27/in-kernel-or-not-in-kernel-this-is-the-hyperconverged-question/comment-page-1/#comment-177604 Mon, 02 Mar 2015 21:56:00 +0000 http://longwhiteclouds.com/?p=10647#comment-177604 In reply to Keith Hooker.

Thanks for your comment. You could argue that, but there is nothing stopping you having an automated process to upgrade storage that is outside of the kernel at the same time as the hypervisor. Some companies have this today, a process to upgrade storage with one click while upgrading the hypervisor, you can do both at the same time. If you are benefitting from the built in storage capability then it could be an advantage to have it tightly coupled together.

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By: vcdxnz001 http://longwhiteclouds.com/2015/02/27/in-kernel-or-not-in-kernel-this-is-the-hyperconverged-question/comment-page-1/#comment-177603 Mon, 02 Mar 2015 21:50:25 +0000 http://longwhiteclouds.com/?p=10647#comment-177603 In reply to terafirma.

Thanks for the comment. In a properly implemented architecture the loss of a local controller on a hypervisor host won't cause an APD. In fact the VM's won't even know anything has happened. However if the components of the hypervisor that deal with persistent local storage go funky, then you're on a path to an unhappy place. The biggest problem I see is that VMware a now bloating the kernel with this storage stack even is the vast majority of customers won't ever use it. You get the bugs without the benefits. Also implementing a storage controller in user space means it could run as a container, just as easily as it can run as a VM. Data and persistence of that data is definitely the top priority, that is why you want an architecture that protects data even if the local compute node is unavailable for whatever reason. Although I would equally argue that compute isn't disposable as it run's your VM's, the architecture is designed to recover those VM's in the case of a compute failure, and so should the persistent storage. Whether a vSwitch should run in a VM depends on the function of the VM. If the VM is a Docker Container VM, running many other containers, then yes maybe it should, if it's a load balancer or security device that support multiple virtual security domains, then maybe it should, but if it's none of those, then probably not. The hypervisor would be a better place for the vSwitch. The innovation could be done on SAN's, but that's not where it's happening, mainly due to scalability limitations. AFA's can be a good option, but there is no reason why a well run VSA can't outperform and out-scale an AFA, I see it all the time.

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By: Keith Hooker http://longwhiteclouds.com/2015/02/27/in-kernel-or-not-in-kernel-this-is-the-hyperconverged-question/comment-page-1/#comment-177429 Mon, 02 Mar 2015 14:38:00 +0000 http://longwhiteclouds.com/?p=10647#comment-177429 Couldn’t you also argue that keeping the storage in the kernel allows you to keep the components “in sync”, so that upgrades are always done together? I now have one less thing to upgrade, since the storage is built right into the hypervisor.

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By: terafirma http://longwhiteclouds.com/2015/02/27/in-kernel-or-not-in-kernel-this-is-the-hyperconverged-question/comment-page-1/#comment-177108 Mon, 02 Mar 2015 02:23:00 +0000 http://longwhiteclouds.com/?p=10647#comment-177108 I would say that some of this is actually incorrect. If storage has an issue it will take down compute with it any way last time I saw an APD the VM’s die. While it does restrict the damage this could be done in kernel with docker just as well this would also reduce attack surfaces by only loading what is needed.

One question not covered here is data. e.g.:

Data is so important it is the first word in data center it is the sole reason DC’s exist and we have jobs. By running it on compute you are putting your most critical part that is entirely about persistence on top of a disposable compute layer.

Would you also say that the correct place for a vswitch is running in a VM? My view is that a hypervisor is an infrastructure visualizer providing IaaS to all consumers.

Then on scale and innovation the same can be done with modern SAN’s while AFA will scale higher than VSA.

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By: Rob Turk http://longwhiteclouds.com/2015/02/27/in-kernel-or-not-in-kernel-this-is-the-hyperconverged-question/comment-page-1/#comment-176575 Sun, 01 Mar 2015 09:32:29 +0000 http://longwhiteclouds.com/?p=10647#comment-176575 There’s a typo in your article which takes away the main point you are trying to make. You write “By tying VSAN to the kernel you are not limiting the ability to update it without updating the entire hypervisor…”

I’m pretty sure you want to replace ‘not’ with ‘now’.

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By: vcdxnz001 http://longwhiteclouds.com/2015/02/27/in-kernel-or-not-in-kernel-this-is-the-hyperconverged-question/comment-page-1/#comment-175693 Sat, 28 Feb 2015 02:00:20 +0000 http://longwhiteclouds.com/?p=10647#comment-175693 In reply to Mike Marseglia.

I think the isolation differences and consequences around bugs and bloat of the kernel are covered in the body of the article. By tightly coupling even if VSAN is not enabled it can still impact other parts of the operations as I have already experienced. It's not just enabling or disabling but isolation, security and the other aspects covered within the article.

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By: Mike Marseglia http://longwhiteclouds.com/2015/02/27/in-kernel-or-not-in-kernel-this-is-the-hyperconverged-question/comment-page-1/#comment-175677 Sat, 28 Feb 2015 01:39:29 +0000 http://longwhiteclouds.com/?p=10647#comment-175677 What’s the difference between running something like this in “user space” and a kernel module that can enabled or disabled at boot?

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